"the Father is greater than I" - Jesus

Why I Reject the Trinity Part: 6

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son but only the Father."

John 5:19 "Jesus gave them this answer: I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

John 17:20-23 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."

John 20:17 "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

Acts 7:55-56 "But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God."

Colossians 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."

1Corinthians 15:24-28 "Then the end will come, when he (Jesus) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

1Corinthians 8:5-6 "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

1Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus"

Mark 12:29 “And Jesus answered him, the first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord.”

James 1:13 “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.”

Mathew 4:1 “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”

Hebrews 2:18 “For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.”

There are verses that really sound like Jesus is God and there are verses that really sound like he is not. I understand most Trinitarians would complete mental gymnastics around some of these verses in order to make them fit. My primary reason for rejecting Trinity is its’ conflict with the gospel. My second is that I don’t believe scripture requires the Trinity.

The Trinity doctrine is one that tries to marry a human/divine Jesus by creating an illogical conundrum. Jesus is both completely God and completely man at the same time. If the doctrine is challenged as nonsensical it’s then explained as a mystery of God only discernable by the spirit. I understand that until we leave these bodies we will never fully grasp God. But I believe there is a harmonious alternative to the Trinity.

PART 7

Trinity VS. the Gospel

Why I Reject the Trinity Part: 5

In Psalms 8:5 if you notice the difference among translations, the KJV says:
"For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour."

If you don’t like the KJV the verse is also mentioned in the Book of Hebrews in Greek as angels,
Hebrews 2:7
“Thou madest him a little lower than the angels (aggelos); thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands”

So, allowing scripture to interpret scripture the New Testament translates the Old and claims that Elohim means the Father, men (Ps. 82:6) and now we see angels (Ps.8:5, Heb 2:7). These texts in my opinion are speaking of God family as opposed to an exclusive Trinity. I also find more harmony in God family with oneness, Spirit, Soul, and Body, as well as general natural reading of the text.

We can see that the creative Elohim of Genesis 1:26 clearly can include more meaning than the traditional view of a triune God. It includes men and angels, implying a heavenly host of God family. Also, the Hebrews had no intention of a plural form of Elohim to be seen as a three part deity. Now, understandably they could have been ignorant of this truth which God was revealing through them. Yet, to use the grammatical nature of a Hebrew word, in an attempt to negate the core Hebrew doctrine of Monotheism, seems a bit of a stretch.

The Bible does not claim that the creative Genesis 1 “us” is implying Trinity. I believe the Father was telling the heavenly hosts (Elohim) what he was going to do, and that they too have His image. I’m not implying that the hosts have creative power (I don’t know if they do or don’t) I’m saying they participated and gloried in the Father’s work. Just because man is made in the image of Elohim does not by default mean angels are not. As we saw previously angels are Elohim just as are we. We both share the image of Elohim with the Father.

I am not simply expanding the Trinity to include angels, heavenly beings, and men. I believe the core problem with the Trinity doctrine is that it doesn’t make proper distinction between Jesus, the Father, and us.

Is Jesus God? Yes, in Elohim nature, but not in the Trinitarian form. If we believe that one being is expressed in three persons then when Jesus does something it is also the Father and the Holy Spirit doing it by means of perfect agreement. Jesus’ actions are simply the current expression of that Triune being. If the Trinitarian Jesus rebukes you and is angry with you then the Father is rebuking and angry too.

Jesus says to the church, in Revelation 3:19 “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.” Yet in Isaiah 54:9 the Father is stating about our covenant to the church, “so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.”
How can this be? For those who understand the true gospel, how can “God” be completely reconciled, at peace, pleased, and not imputing sin; while at the same time irreconciled, angry, against men with a sword, and imputing sin? I don’t believe the Trinity doctrine is compatible with Paul’s gospel; this is my primary reason for rejecting it.

more gospel: HERE


PART 6

You and the Father are One

Why I Reject the Trinity Part: 4

It would seem from Psalm 82:6 that we are considered Elohim (god plural) and sons of the Most High. I don’t believe we are the Father but we are of Him. We were created with and from His nature and therefore part of the Elohim. I am just as much Elohim as Jesus or Yahweh, but I am not the person Yahweh. Now, born again, I am His son; just like Adam and Jesus. I am human flesh reborn with the nature of Elohim in my spirit. I am part of the Elohim heavenly family. However, my person is different from you, an angel, Jesus, and Yahweh.

So the first question that we should consider is what is a proper understanding of the word God?

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 (speaking of one’s born again spirit)
“Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things [are] of God..”

1 Corinthians 6:17
“But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.”

Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

Romans 12:2
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,”

Romans 8:29
“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

1 John 3:2
“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

If we believe that our spirit is one spirit with Christ and it is literally the spirit of Christ in us, that we are being transformed into that image, and will be like him when we see him and receive a glorified and perfect body, then where do we draw the lines? At some point we have to make distinction within the Trinitarian view.

If Jesus is identical in God-likeness to the Father [therefore God], and my spirit is identical with Jesus [therefore God], when my new body perfectly sees and exudes Jesus how will I not be identical to him and the Father? How will I be different? Trinity has distinguished three personalities as co-equal while the rest of us are not. However, the Bible disagrees with this. Regarding oneness we are all one, not just Jesus and the Father. So what does this unity look like?

John 17:22-23
“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;”

I am one with Jesus in Elohim nature just as he is one with the Father. Joined unto him in one spirit. All those who are born again are one with the Father because we are now all children in the family of God.

Jesus himself distinguishes, in John 10:29-30, that the Father is greater than all, so how can he then say that he and the Father are one? Some say because they are one in Trinity, but that is basically my point. If God is our Father and we are one with him how are we also then not a member of the Triune Godhead as “God(s) in the flesh?” If one naturally reads these verses the God family makes more sense. The Father is above Jesus in rank, Jesus is above us and yet we are all one in Elohim nature.

PART 5